6 July 2018

Making Unschooled Kids Learn Maths Just in Case

Should we make our unschooled kids learn maths in a formal way just in case? Is this sensible? We never know when they might need to prove they have covered all the skills presented in maths courses. What if they want to apply for a university degree course that has a maths prerequisite? What if our kids decide they’d like to go to school and so have to slot back into the system with their age peers?

These are situations some unschoolers have told me they’ve had to deal with. They’ve let go of maths and then later, they’ve regretted their decision because their kids have been behind in maths.

When responding to concerns about maths, I always say that maths can be learnt whenever a child needs it. It’s never too late for kids to acquire any necessary skill and catch up to where they need to be. Of course, catching up takes time. A child can’t learn everything overnight. But usually, when we have a need for knowledge, we learn at a faster rate. If there’s a particular reason for learning something we’re prepared to put in a lot of effort.

But even knowing that it’s possible for kids to catch up, some parents are still anxious. Maybe they’re worried about time. Could there be a reason why their kids don’t want to spend extra time learning the required maths skills? Are they working to a rigid timetable?

For most kids, time shouldn’t matter. The window of opportunity to get into university isn’t small. Anybody of any age can apply to do a degree course. No one misses out because they are too old. However, maybe we’ve got into the habit of thinking that kids must apply to university as soon as they finish school which is usually when they are 18. They work hard and complete their courses, and then they get jobs. It’s the way things are usually done. But kids don’t have to work to this timetable. They could continue studying for the skills they need after they have reached the official school-leaving age. If for some reason continuing to study full time isn’t an option, could a child work and study part-time? There’s more than one way of doing things. There really isn’t any need to panic because time is running out.

But time might matter when we’re talking about school. If kids enter the school system, they’re expected to be at the same level as their age peers. And unschooled kids might indeed be behind when it comes to maths. Catching up might not only be hard work, it could be discouraging as well. Wouldn’t it be better if all unschooled kids learnt maths in a formal way just in case they want to go to school?

I wonder if having one eye on school compromises our unschooling lives. Does it lessen our commitment? Does it prevent us from immersing ourselves fully in this way of life? Our family never talks about school. For us, it’s not an option.

However, even if parents are fully committed to unschooling, shouldn’t kids be free to choose? What if one of my kids wants to go to school? I don’t think this is likely to happen. Our life is too good to give up for the experience of school. But yes, my children are free to choose and anything is possible. If one of them wanted to go to school and they were behind with maths, we’d probably talk about what they would have to achieve to fit in with their age grade. Are they willing to work hard to catch up? Should they do this before entering school? If school is important enough, kids will find a way of getting there. This applies to university as well.

READ  Unschooling When Charlotte Mason Also Appeals to Our Hearts

Of course, there are times when our unschooled kids learn maths in a formal way just in case and it has nothing to do with us. Parents don’t have to force them to do it. There are no battles: Why do I have to learn maths? I’ll never need it. We don’t have to point out that, despite appearances, the maths may be useful. No, sometimes our children freely choose to do a maths course.

When my daughter Imogen was about 17, she decided to complete an advanced maths course. At the time, she was interested in many things including medicine. She knew the medical degree course had a maths prerequisite. So she asked me to find her a suitable course to complete just in case she decided that she’d follow this passion. By the time she finished the maths course, Imogen was no longer thinking about a career in medicine. Instead, she wanted to study writing.

Imogen didn’t need maths to apply for her Bachelor of Arts degree in Professional Writing and Publishing. So was completing the higher maths course a waste of time? Does Imogen regret doing it? It depends on how you look at it.  Imogen is rather pleased that she is the only Elvis child who has ever completed an advanced maths course. But, a few years down the track, does she remember much of what she learnt? No.

“I never used the maths,” says Imogen, “so now I’ve forgotten most of what I learnt.”

Imogen’s maths result is a bit like my science degree. We both ended up with meaningless bits of paper. We did our courses, but remember little of what we learnt.

Sometimes I wonder what interesting things kids could be doing instead of spending time learning stuff just in case.


Just because we don’t make our unschooling kids learn maths, doesn’t mean they don’t have any maths skills. Children use maths all the time in their everyday lives.

My youngest daughter Gemma-Rose uses maths while she’s running. She mentally calculates distances and times as she runs along our local bush tracks or around the lake. She adds, subtracts, multiplies, divides and estimates. She uses whole numbers and decimal fractions. If she uses her GPS watch, she has extra mathematical data to delve into once her run is over. She can look at graphs – pie, bar, column and line – and find out her average pace and speed. She can work out which was her fastest lap. She can compare data from different days. Gemma-Rose can look at the elevation of the running location, the air temperature, the time of day, and she can view a map of her running route. She’s doing lots of maths. She’s also using geographical skills too. Except Gemma-Rose doesn’t think about it like that. As far as she’s concerned, she’s not doing maths and geography. She’s just enjoying herself. Running is one of her passions.

If you’re a regular reader of my blog, you might be familiar with Gemma-Rose’s maths story, how I’ve had to tread carefully with her when mentioning the word ‘maths’. Well, I have another instalment in this story I could share with you. Recently, something changed. Do you want to hear about it? If you do, I could write another unschool maths post!

Sue Elvis

I'm an Australian blogger, podcaster, and Youtuber. I write and speak about unschooling, parenting and family life. I'm also the author of the unschooling books 'Curious Unschoolers', 'Radical Unschool Love' and ‘The Unschool Challenge’. You'll find them on Amazon!

18 Comments

    • Holly,

      I did tell. I’ve just finished writing another unschool maths post. I’ll publish it tomorrow! Thanks for your interest!

  1. This is one of your best posts and I thoroughly agree. Although, I do make my child learn stuff just in case, as we have standardized testing here where we live. But, it is a minimal part of our day, and not even every day at that.

    • Standardised testing must make things difficult for you. I find it hard enough fulfilling our homeschool registration records and we don’t have to worry about tests. Sometimes we just have to do our best and allow our kids as much freedom as possible, don’t we? I’m so glad you like my post. Thank you for your feedback!

  2. I’m glad you’ve written a follow-up maths post, Sue. I can’t wait to read it. I thoroughly agree with all you’ve expressed in this post!

    Your blog has had so many encouraging and thought-provoking posts, a good number of which I’ve emailed to my husband to read and then we’ve talked about the issues and topics you’ve raised. This process has been a key part of him coming to a deeper understanding and appreciation of unschooling and how wonderful it is. I cannot thank you enough for all you’ve shared over the years. He is now very much on board with unschooling and he was also encouraged by this post (which I sent him earlier today). 🙂

    • Alison,

      My husband and I also like to discuss things that we’ve read or listened to. I feel so honoured you and your husband are choosing to read my posts together. And I’m glad you’re finding my words helpful. Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging comment. I’ll keep writing!

      I published my promised maths post earlier this morning. Let me know what you think!

      I hope everything is well with you. How’s the job situation? Enjoy the weekend!

    • I’ve just read your follow-up post and can really relate to the first 2 questions you ask regarding maths. I wrestled with issues like ‘what if people find out my girls don’t know their times tables?’ for a while and then realised that I don’t know all my times tables at 40+ years old and I seem to have got through life okay so far! 🙂

      My older daughter (13) loves to measure and compare things around the house, make up tables of figures of prices she’s looking at on various websites etc – I am amazed at all the maths related activities she comes up with on her own. My younger daughter (9), like Gemma-Rose, is resistant to any maths activities I try to overtly introduce but I was very encouraged to hear that Gemma-Rose has recently shown an interest in wanting to learn maths in a more systematic way (to her, not necessarily to others – but that’s totally okay!). It is so much easier to take the natural opportunities to explore mathematical concepts and usage that arise in daily life rather than force things.

      I think the key, you often point out and I have really internalised now, is trusting our kids to learn what they want regarding maths (or anything else) when it is relevant, interesting, useful and helpful to them at the time. This is when they are fully engaged and motivated to learn and remember what they are learning.

      I have come across a new podcast series on the Whole Family Learning website and Kerry’s latest podcast is entitled ‘Unschooling and Coercion’ which has been interesting.

      My husband has had some job interviews recently and at the moment there are possibilities in Queensland (not far from where we currently live), NSW and Tasmania. I have been researching homeschooling requirements in the latter two states and having to meet all the outcomes for learning in NSW seems rather daunting!

      • Alison,

        When my girls started groaning about maths and saying they hated it and weren’t any good at it, I knew I had to do something. I had no choice but to change what we were doing. But yes, it’s hard to leave the traditional path when there are plenty of critics ready to tell us our kids should know such things as the times tables. Sophie did learn these tables and Gemma-Rose knows how to work them out. I don’t think it matters that she can’t always give an instant answer. Like you, I’m not always sure of the right answer. I have to do a bit of checking!

        It can be really hard listening to our kids instead of other people, to accept that the traditional ideas we were brought up with might not be correct, to do what we feel is right regardless of criticism. Unschooling is difficult at times, isn’t it? But oh so rewarding! I love watching my children learn and grow and develop without being coerced. It sounds like you do too.

        I’m going to listen to the podcast you mentioned. Thank you for telling me about it!

        You might know we live in NSW. Yes, the registration requirements sound daunting. Actually, there have been a few changes recently which have made things a bit easier. Despite having to fulfil the requirements, we are able to unschool. I’ve never had a problem getting through the registration process. Of course, I still wish there was no such thing as homeschool registration!

        I hope your husband finds the right job in the right place for your family!

  3. Oh Australia sounds like a happy country education-vise. We have limited windows for entering univerity and other higher education. If you start at the set time, your notes will be mulitplied by a bigger factor than if you wait – facor sinking rapidly to 1. An all studies have limited number of admission, letting only those with best notes enter. Part time study does not exist and home schoolers are frowned upon and tested on par with public schools every year. Humanistics ar disencouraged as well, with IT and engineering the two subjects to get all the positive attention.
    Yes I’m old an bitter, nut love to hear your stories, so bring them on.

    • Charlotte,

      I didn’t realise that the educational system in Denmark is so different from here. I’m sorry you and your children don’t have the same choices as us. We have to compete for places on the various degree courses, but anyone can apply regardless of age. Actually, mature age students are encouraged. This is good because sometimes we’re not ready to go to university as soon as we leave school. We might need some time to work out what we would really love to study. No one is penalised because they have delayed going to university.

      It’s so lovely connecting with you in my comments box. It seems like a long time since we last chatted. I left my blog and disappeared over to Instagram for a while. That’s where a lot of unschoolers seem to hang out. But I’ve missed writing proper posts. Writing captions for photos isn’t the same.

      I hope all is well with you and your family!

  4. Sue, I have been reading your blog on and off for a couple years now – I love your style, your honesty, and the questions you pose.

    I wonder if you have any thoughts on “forcing” subjects if the child has a learning disability. We have unschooled until this year and my son has always been resistant to reading, even though he has always been read to and surrounded by books from an early age. We thought he would get to it when he was ready, but that day hasn’t come yet and we began to worry we were not providing him with the right resources. We had some testing done that may point to dyslexia, which we found very discouraging. Because there are not a lot of good options in our area, we have been working with him on a workbook program at home. It is very ”schooly” and not at all what he is used to, and he really doesn’t like it. He has been relatively patient with us so far because we have never really pushed anything on him to this point, but I feel his resistance to learning – it is just something to “get through”. We have talked about why reading is so important, and even though he is young, the interests he has really do involve being able to read well, and he seems to lose any progress if we don’t drill it formally every day. I do not want him to get into his preteenyears without being able to read, and all the “experts” say that we have already missed a critical learning window and it is only going to get harder for him. It pains me, though, to feel like I am forcing anything on him. I wonder if you have any (even indirect) experience with such a situation. Thanks for any thoughts!

    • K,

      It must be hard knowing what’s the right thing to do especially when experts talk about critical windows.

      I don’t have any experience with dyslexia, but I have read a few forum discussions on this subject and will share what I can remember.

      Firstly, some unschooling mothers get very upset when other unschoolers dismiss their concerns about their children’s struggles to read. They say there’s no such thing as dyslexia. Kids will get there in their own time. I’m sure the situation seems very real to you and you feel you need to help your son. Suggesting that there isn’t a problem isn’t helpful at all.

      One mother said that she involves her child in any intervention decisions. They research dyslexia together, talk about what frustrates the child, what he wants to achieve, what help he needs, what he is prepared to do. She lets him lead instead of pushing. She tries to find ways around the lack of reading skills to reduce frustration. And she encourages her son’s strengths to keep things balanced and so he doesn’t lose confidence.

      Another mother said that the small gains that came from structured programs weren’t worth it for her daughter because they came at a great cost. Relationships suffered damage. She feels it’s better to offer help without forcing and not pass any stress or worry onto her child. The parent doesn’t want her child’s motivation to work on her reading to come from a feeling of shame because she isn’t keeping up with her age peers. Learning can be adapted depending on how we’re wired. Dyslexia isn’t necessarily a problem. And maybe there are other advantages that come with dyslexia.

      A few thoughts. I’ll add some resources I made a note of:

      http://sandradodd.com/r/mikedyslexia
      http://moonfiregypsy.blogspot.com/2014/06/modal-unschooling-dyslexia.html?m=1
      http://themahoganyway.com/dyslexia-unschooling/ (offline at the moment)
      https://www.dyslexicadvantage.org/
      http://www.tiltparenting.com/podcast/

      I hope you find something that helps you and your son!

      I’m glad you enjoy my blog. Thank you for letting me know!

      • Thanks so much for your thoughtful response, Sue. I will look into these resources. I like the idea of involving him more in the process. That seems like a really balanced approach that might suit us.

        I appreciate your time. Keep up the great work! You are an inspiration!

        • K,

          I was glad to help. I’m glad I saved the list of resources. I knew it would come in handy one day. Thank you for your kind words!

  5. Thank you, Sue, for this post. My kids are 2 and almost 1 right now. But as I am sure you know, education is going on ALL the time at this age, and I am developing my educational philosophy. I could choose what my two year old will wear for the day. But I think she will benefit so much more from picking her own outfit and learning what outfits do and do not make sense for the weather. I give some guidance. But I feel so strongly that filling our kids’ days out with our own plans from the time that they are very young until they are 18 is so detrimental to their ability to think critically about designing a worthy life. No one should graduate from high school and still know fairly little about how to design their day and chase their goals or what value they would even want to provide if they had the chance to set their own goals. Heck, many graduate from college still not knowing what they want to “do with their lives.” It starts with taking an active role planning and thinking about what you want instead of having a course of action set for you to ride on autopilot. You give strength to my thoughts, knowing I am not alone.

    • Grace,

      Oh yes! If we keep our kids busy doing what we think is best for them, they’ll never set their own challenges. They’ll be passive learners instead of active ones and possibly won’t know what they should do with their lives when the time comes for them to be independent. It is so very sad that many young people don’t feel excited about what they can offer the world. They don’t realise what the possibilities are.

      I love how you’re thinking about the future while your children are still very young. Yes, it’s no good thinking about these things when our children are ready to leave home. Kids are learning from day one. Small decisions like choosing an outfit today lead to bigger choices and independence later on.

      I’m so glad you shared your thoughts. Thank you for stopping by!

Please add your thoughts!

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous Story

When Unschooling Doesn’t Seem to be Working

Next Story

When an Unschooler isn’t Interested in Maths

Go toTop